Good day to all,

A good subject of meditation for all colleague tutors !

The creation of 1-M classes was announced as being a good mean for a tutor to market his services online. The intention to create a class accessible to a certain number of students is a very good thing indeed. The worldwide crisis is currently impacting anybody anywhere in the world, so sharing the cost of a tuition online allows a greater number of students to register for the sessions.

But one bad result that nobody can deny : free classes are fully booked very quickly, and for paying classes, 0 or 1 student ….

As far as I am concerned :
Free session : 10 seats available for 10 students = fully booked in 2 days
Paying classes : 5 seats available for 5 students = only 1 booking

Conclusion : everybody is looking for freebies….

Has Edufire been created for that purpose???

I would appreciate your reaction on this.

best

Jean-Marie

Jean-Marie. I’ve talked extensively about this. I totaly agree with you

I agree with you Jean-Marie….

None of us is here to give freebies! And we all know that many people surfing on the net are looking for free “anything”.

I’m a professional and when I show up for a class or a “one-on-one” session, I am well prepared and I have the materials to support my teaching…. and no offence to anyone, but I also have a background (schooling and 20+ years of experience) to support my practice and I’m excellent at what I do.

Actually, I give something once a year (around Christmas) in giveaways on my blog (always a value of 150$ US +) and even then I have the participants “work” in order to enter my contests. Otherwise my time and my experience come with a price tag.

I do not train people for free in real life and I don’t intend to do it on the net either (I have clients of my own – that I teach online because they live in another city – through my business in Ottawa and they don’t expect anything free!). And from experience, you always get what you paid for!!! :0

I have been thinking of starting a class yet when I see that the already existing ones are free, I’m not tempted to do so….

Good point Jean-Marie!

Jean- Marie and Lyne:

Check these 2 related threads

http://edufire.com/forums/1/topics/2104
http://edufire.com/forums/3/topics/2103?page=1#posts-24780

Thanks Enrique,

Both links were good food for the “thoughts”….

Anyways when I’ll be retired, maybe I’ll volunteer to teach for free but until then, I have a mortgage to pay for and a business to run.

Yes, we could give a 30 minute session outlining what the course will be…. but free lessons? Never!

When I do contract with clients, I meet with them and we discuss my methods, program, materials and $$$…. this is the marketing side of a business…. not giving away for free the actual product! Duh! Do people have free courses in University (or any other schools) to test waters? Don’t think so!….

Good for you Enrique…. it seems you’ve been an advocate for a while…. I’m new here yet I already noticed the “free” trend…. I support you 100%….

Hey everyone – like I said in the previous thread, we’re just getting started and we really haven’t marketed classes yet, and yet I think there have been a lot of positive results. I totally agree with all of you that free classes fill up quickly, and that people are going to look for freebies, but that’s not always the case. I myself (and I know a lot of other people out there) are very willing to pay for quality. In fact, when I go out looking for things, I look for the higher quality product, even if it’s more expensive. That might just be me, but I know there are plenty of others out there like me as well. Just to shine light on the other side of the spectrum, here are some classes doing pretty well, even though they cost money:

Start with Arabic – $5 a class with 11 students = $55 per class

Introduction to Google AdWords: How to Buy Advertising on Google – $20 a class with 8 students = $160 per class

Blogging from Scratch to Success! – $15 a class with 7 students = $105 per class (Most of the people in my class are from free classes I have taught)

Raw Food: Transitioning Q & A – $6 a class with 6 students = $36 per class (she held a great free class first, which got her students in this pay class)

Conversational English – $5 a class with 5 students = $25 per class

English Please! Listening & Speaking – $5 a class with 5 students = $25 per class

Beginners-1 Hindi Conversational Class – $10 a class with 5 students = $50 per class

Raw Food: Recipe Conversions – $6 a class with 5 students = $30 per class (she held a great free class first, which got her students in this pay class)

I know that in comparison, free classes are dominating right now, but, two things to keep in mind:

1. These classes above are doing something different that is getting them students. What are they doing? Here are some things I see without digging too deep…. They have captivating titles, they keep things simple (and don’t offer a lot of classes), they have good quality, have good class descriptions, eye-catching icons, they work hard to market their class, they offer something unique (which you can too, even within languages, just need to think about how you can offer something nobody else can! Think “free prize inside”….definitely could teach an entire class just on this).
2. Classes just opened up. eduFire is growing pretty fast, which means if (theoretically) eduFire grows, the amount of people in your classes will grow too. If you have 2 people in a class now, when eduFire doubles in size, you’ll have 4 people in your class then.

Koichi, I do agree with you on many points…. don’t worry I’m good at maketing myself but, by outlining my “product” (a taster/teaser) free (my 30 minute sale pitch you know?)…. not by giving it away!

There are “one time” courses and then you accept lots of people at 5$ per seat…. great! People are even willing to pay 20$ + for ONE class…. with languages, it’s quite another story (you know, right?)…. it is an ONGOING training…. no one speaks a language after 5, 10 or even 20 lessons! Personally I never take more than 4 or 5 students in a class to keep learning efficient…. therefore I would not offer classes at 5$ per student. And I would not create “one-time” classes because it isn’t going anywhere…. I’m serious about this business and I’m expecting my students to be as well. They must have a goal….

Yet I know eventually I’ll find my niche…. as I found the one I have right now in my business…. I’m like you, I look for the best and I’m ready to pay for quality…. I stay as far as possible from anything that is free – ever tried Google Free Translators?… well, it is worth what the price says: nothing! :P

Later!

I understand what you mean, but most of the courses up there are a series of classes – I just put the price per class up there. Probably should have went ahead and added how long the class goes for too.

I don’t think you have to give anything away to market your class – some people will, because they have no authority in their area of expertise, and haven’t put in the time beforehand building it up. Free classes is just one way to do that, is all.

Your profile looks uber-professional, so I look forward to seeing how you market your classes and look forward to observing and learning about what strategies you use, etc :)

Yes Koichi!…. watch me go on my marketing trip! :P

Maybe you’ll have to wait a little while though…. because when I’ll do it, I’ll be at the top of things! I’m also a perfectionist…. and also watch for the “title”! BTW, did you have a look at my blog? I know you have a series of classes coming up on how to be successful bloggers…. It’s great because indeed many people start blogs without even knowing who they are addressing or what they want to write about (and who wants to read about my petty life? ;-) )…. I’m digressing now…. À plus!

Haven’t read it yet, but you just got yourself a new RSS subscriber :)

Great Koichi!

I’m sure you’ll enjoy my stories…. and my tests/quizzes!!! :) I certainly devote lots of time in blogging, but it pays off big time! It’s such a great marketing tool…. here, in Canada, when public servants are looking for info on the federal government’s SLE tests, they always land on my blog…. actually it is on the top of the 1st Google Search page (even before the PSC official website!)…. I certainly know how to bring Google juice!…. LOL

This is an interesting discussion though I think it tends to disregard or denigrate those of us who are new to formal teaching and are exploring or transitioning to teaching online, or whose motives for offering free classes are not directly commercial.

I think the free classes offer an excellent opportunity for both the teachers and the students to get used to the medium and explore what works.

I offer free conversation classes in English, it costs me 3 hours of time per week in classes and about 2 hours on top of that in preparation and follow up. To me it is time well spent. I am learning a lot, particularly as my students come from many different cultures and have different experiences in learning English and therefore have different gaps in their knowledge.

The one to one teaching I do is much more intense and focussed and I expect the student to really work on the subject.

Most of my potential students would not initially pay for online teaching as it is outside of their experience and almost an alien concept.

No one is forced to offer free classes, however as some of my students could not afford formal paid classes, even $5 per session is a lot of money for some, I am happy to share some of my knowledge for free and participate in the Edufire community.

Hi Philip!

Sorry if I sounded like disregarding or denigrating those who offer free classes. It wasn’t my intent! :)

Of course it’s a great way to get experience and explore this new medium for those who are serious about this new career and who aim to become top notch online teachers/tutors (which isn’t the case for everyone, let’s face it). And don’t worry, when I was a rookie myself in the field, I worked many hours without getting any financial return for it.

Now that I have earned my reputation and my authority in the field (in the real world I’m a consultant in very high demand with both the public and private sectors), I’m rather devoting my time on my business blog (and trust me it’s time consuming! a couple of hours every two days). And truthfully I do admire you! It’s great that you share your knowledge with students who can’t afford formal paid classes…. and I’m convinced you’re doing a great job! ;)

Thanks Lyne

I do understand your position and the effort you have put into reaching your level of expertise.

I like the ideas behind Edufire but I recognize that it is a difficult task to balance the ideals of an open learning community with the requirements of a professional teaching /learning environment.

I am currently exploring how to deal fairly with the people who have signed up for my free classes and do not attend, perhaps for many reasons, including the fact that the classes are free and there is no cost if they don’t attend. The cost is to the other students who would like to attend.

One of the many aspects of teaching to learn that is separate to just having a store of knowledge. The more I learn about this the more I understand just how many skills a good teacher needs to have and the more I admire the professional teachers here such as yourself.

Of course free lessons have their down sides : people feel “free” to skip or drop out at any time at the expenses of others who would really like to attend (but can’t because all the seats are taken)…. when people pay (even 5$), they think twice before they do so. :)

And you’re so right! Being a good teacher goes beyond having the knowledge…. the most important is knowing how to communicate this knowledge and unfortunately many don’t have it! I always said that teaching was a vocation and not a job! It is somewhat innate…. I have to say I always taught by instinct (there was nothing in my university andragogy classes that I did not already know instinctively)….

Back in Montreal, for a few years, I was teaching a 1st year mandatory course for university people registered in the Education program…. I probably saw 300 students in this course over time, and honestly I spotted only 4 that I knew would be GREAT teachers…. the rest of them were average or simply not suited for the job ahead.

And…. since you recognize that, I can tell you will become an excellent teacher! ;)

There is a problem though, even with paid classes, with students not showing up. Even though students might think twice before signing up to a paid class, there is no “paying happening” until they actually attend class, if I’m understanding the current system correctly. That means, students could sign up for a “for pay” class, take up a seat, and not attend nor pay.
For a quality learning experience for the student, it might be imperative for some quality control limitations on the tutor/class-side, let it be a fee, min & max # of students, minimum level, etc. My two cents :)

I agree with Jean-marie and Lyne.
I have 32 years and over 70,000 lessons of experience.

And believe me, giving free classes will not put food on my table.

Hi Jean-Marie

I do have the luxury of being retired, and it does not take money out of my pocket to offer free classes.

However, now that I have more time I want to do new things, so I need to earn extra money for those projects and my family want me to “do something useful”. I too have to find a balance between free and paid.

The teaching side has evolved from language exchange with friends in other countries, particularly China. I have been learning Mandarin, slowly, and teaching English to friends I have met online. They are the ones who suggested I teach formally but it not practical for me to go there and teach, not until my family is older. At the suggestion of a Chinese friend who already teaches on Edufire I began to explore paid teaching online.

When I was young I had the opportunity to train to be a teacher (a well paid scholarship), but I knew that I wasn’t ready and would not have made a good teacher at that stage. Now with benefit of hindsight I am even more sure of that.

It has taken a lot of living and growing to reach the stage where I feel I really have something to offer. Now when I look back at some of my early teachers, the better ones, I begin to appreciate their skills.

Wren. You can set your classes as pre paid

Many thanks Enrique for the 2 threads provided, good piece of info !

You’re welcome. Jean-Marie Now you know the general feeling on edufire

Enrique…. be positive! It isn’t that discouraging…. and there’s always the “pre-paid” button!

All of my students online (my own biz) pay up front before each meeting and, actually, I never had one who argued…. I send the bill a few hours before the lesson and, usually less than hour later, the funds are in my commercial PayPal account.

People who buy a lot on the net already know that…. they know they have to pay before they get the goods or the services…. it’s general practice and no one is offended. And…. as for my clients, if they don’t show up (in real face-to-face or virtual sessions), they won’t be reimbursed (for those that lessons are paid by their employers, the companies know they will be billed although nobody show up) because I booked my time and I cannot re-schedule someone else. It’s only common practice…. I know some people feel “bad” to ask for money up front or have someone pay for a service they didn’t get because they cancelled the meeting. Yet as I said it is common practice…. although we are teachers, we need to be business men/women!

I know Lyne!

Its still discouraging after MANY years of experience, to hear someone say that giving free classes is good business practice.

Truthfully I’m embarassed to talk about this with my friends and colleages.

I’ve said enough.

You just need to give it a little thought to understand what is going on. If we are not making any money tutoring classes, so will not eduFire. So the question is, what is eduFire’s self-sustainable economic model? Because the live learning (Acrobat Connect) platform they pay for is very expensive.

Good point Jorge….

This is why I do think the “free” trend will gradually go away…. maybe the 30 minute topos to advertise an upcoming series of classes will remain (which is okay by me…. we have to market our classes live too! backed up w some nice ppt presentation, etc.), but actual one hour or 90 minute classes will die out (I think/hope)!…. unless eduFire becomes some kind of philanthropic site sustained by some billionnaire or…. it introduces ads (you know the kind of sites plastered with whatever ads they can find! and BTW look soooo cheap!)) to pay for it…. :P